Here we go! This is going to be really great. There are about 13 of us that I know of. A few have signed up on the blog, a few haven't. It doesn't matter, I just hope everyone has a good experience with this. I'm excited that there are so many who have joined. The more ideas we have bouncing around the better for all of us. I hope you'll all feel comfortable to share your thoughts, insights, ask questions etc. I always learn more from other people than I do on my own.
I hope you all had plenty of time to get the two required books. If you haven't, don't worry because you'll have a whole week to read your chapters and respond to the discussion questions. I plan on keeping a notebook during this process to write down my thoughts. I hope you'll do the same. We're going to do a few chapters a week. You can read ahead of course but I'm going to take a slow pace so we can take in all the information and accommodate busy schedules. I don't want this to be too taxing on people's already busy lives. Once again, I urge you to finish both books with us before making your final decision about whether or not these ideas hold any water. Keep an open mind and sit with the ideas for awhile. Let them percolate and simmer a little. It's taken you years to learn a certain way of thinking about your body and food, it will take awhile to unlearn it and adopt something new.
This week we'll read the introduction and chapters 1 and 2 of Intuitive Eating and the prologue and chapter 1 of Rethinking Thin. Get out your highlighters, pens, and paper!
Intuitive Eating discussion questions:
Introduction and Chapter 1
How have diets you've been on in the past (if any) contributed to issues you may have with food and your body?
What does the phrase "the big diet hope" mean to you? What is it about dieting that seems so alluring?
How old were you when you went on your first "diet?" What is your earliest memory of being concerned about your weight?
Our weight loss problems are usually not from a lack of knowledge about how to lose weight or knowing about what diets are out there. How much do you know about weight loss and diets both old school and new? Is having the information enough?
Have you experienced "diet backlash?" In what ways?
Chapter 2:
What style of eater are you? You can display characteristics of all of them, but what seems to be your predominate style? Identify which one you are and think about ways you display this style of eating.
Why are fitness fanatics and careful eaters considered "virtuous" in our society? Do you feel that people who don't exercise regularly and who "indulge" in unhealthy food are less virtuous?
Do you agree or disagree with the statement, "diets don't work?" Why or why not?
Now that you have been introduced to what an intuitive eater is, do you know anyone in your life who eats this way? If so, what behaviors do you see in them that you like?
The authors suggest that we all have an intuitive eater inside of us that has just been buried over time. Do you believe that you possess this ability somewhere in you? Why or why not?
Do you trust yourself around food? Does the idea of eating without rules excite you or terrify you?
The more you go to external sources to "judge" if your eating is in check, the more you remove yourself from intuitive eating. What are some external sources that guide your eating?
How often do feelings of guilt follow your eating?
Rethinking Thin discussion questions:
Prologue and Chapter 1:
On page six it reads that "the battle of weight loss is never won, even after you lose weight,......an individual faces a lifelong struggle with no expectation that the struggle required will diminish with time." Do you believe that if you were to lose weight and finally have the body you always wanted that the struggle would be over? Could you do what was required to keep the weight off for the rest of your life?
The author asks, "How did our society today, end up with what may be the greatest disconnect ever between the body weight ideals that are held up as obtainable if you really try and the body weight realities for most people?" What do you think is the answer to this question?
Carmen is a great example because he has tried EVERYTHING out there to lose weight. What do we learn from Carmen's life of dieting?
Compare what you've learned so far in Intuitive Eating with the dieters in the study talked about in Rethinking Thin.
I know I've listed a lot of questions here. I thought of so many as I was reading along. Answer which ever ones you want. Don't answer. Whatever you want. Share some ideas on the blog if you feel like it. If you think of any questions for everyone post them and we'll respond.
Here we go everyone! Have fun reading and thinking!
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Hi all. I just read the first couple of chapters of intuitive eating and decided to record some of my thoughts here so we can start the discussion. What an interesting book. I had no idea how deeply rooted my ideas about dieting and food really are. Before I answer the questions may I just state for the record that I have a fantastic family and stellar parents so I'm not at all trying to bash. I can't remember a time growing up that I wasn't aware of dieting. It seemed that my parents were always on a diet, I'm sure that wasn't the case, but it seemed that way. I can remember one of my parents waking up on their birthday and being very happy about reaching their goal weight, they claimed it was the best present they could receive. Even now, it seems that we constantly discuss food, nutrition, exercise, diets. You can't attend a family function (with the Lemons or the Thatchers) where the conversation doesn't turn to this topic. Most of the time it makes me crazy because I feel like we put so much importance on being thin and I've never been very successful at being thin and so it's frustrating and demoralizing. I guess if I one day succeed at being thin I'll feel like I have arrived. And I'm not proud of the fact that I feel that way, I just do. So I guess that answers the question of whether I feel fitness fanatics and careful eaters are more virtuous. I guess I do. Once again, not proud of that.
ReplyDeleteI am definitely an unconscious emotional eater. I even called Jill and asked her for a recipe the week that Grandpa Johnson died because I was "grieving my way to an extra 10 pounds." I use food to deal with alot of emotions, especially stress and sadness.
I do not believe that diets work. Just one example, I was dieting for about one week and wanted to eat m&m's. I finally decided that I would allow myself an 1/8 cup of candy. Those m&m's tasted SO good. I can still recall the feeling of happiness and pleasure associated with eating that candy. So, I'm sure you can guess what happened. Over the course of the next week, I kept eating the m&m's and failed to keep dieting.
I absolutely do not trust myself around certain kinds of food.
From what I've read so far I think my brother-in-law is a very intuitive eater. He eats when he's hungry, quits when he's full, and eats what he wants to. He's never had a problem with weight and as far as I know, never been on a diet. He was staying with us one weekend. He woke up Saturday morning and ate cake for breakfast. I thought it was so bizarre and definitely not healthy, but he didn't overeat and I'm pretty sure he doesn't eat cake for breakfast everyday or even very often for that matter, so what's the harm in eating cake for breakfast? He wanted cake, so he ate cake. I'm still not exactly sure what an intuitive eater is though so...
Ok, I know I didn't answer every question, but now that I've spilled my guts, it's your turn. Looking forward to developing a peaceful relationship with food and body. Amy
Amy:
ReplyDeleteYou win the early bird prize for being the first to read and comment. I liked your comments, can relate to ALL of them, and appreciate you sharing them. When I dieted m&m's gave me the kind of joy and intense pleasure you talked about, after giving up dieting I realized I don't even like M&M's that much. Go figure.
P.S. Sometimes I eat cake for breakfast. I've learned that I like something a little sweet in the mornings.
I just finished reading the first chapter in Rethinking Thin. In case you haven't guessed already, I'm totally procrastinating the laundry to read. Because I feel like I've said enough already, I just have a question for the group. Do you know anyone whose been on a diet, lost weight, and kept the majority of it off? I think I know one. Which is telling because I know many, many dieters.
ReplyDeleteI've been dieting as far back as I can remember. I've never thought there was any other way. This book has been a real eye opener. I haven't been on a consistent diet since before I was pregnant with the twins, but I don't think a day has gone by that I haven't thought about going on a diet. I always think that someday I will find the right diet that I can actually do and lose all the weight. Now, I hope to never go on a diet again.
ReplyDeleteI think the idea of an intuitive eater is really interesting, I don't see myself with any of the qualities so I really hope there is an intuitive eater in all of us. My sister in law is an intuitive eater as far as I can tell. She is never on a diet, and she seems to enjoy all kinds of food. She pours straight cream on her cereal in the morning, and she adds cream cheese to everything, but I've never seen her overeat. It seems like the perfect way to be. Enjoy everything you want, always be satisfied, never worry about food, or think with every diet that comes along, is this for me. I would love to be free of all of this. I hope there is an intuitive eater in all of us!
In response to Amy's question above.... Yes, I can think of one person, only one, who has lost a small amount of weight (maybe 20 pounds) and has managed to keep it off. She works VERY hard at this though, with constant diligence, extreme excercise and watching every mouthful. She looks good, but I'm not sure I have that kind of vigilance in me. I'm not sure it's a lifestyle I envy. I'm happier when I'm a bit more moderate with things.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone else know a permanant weight loss success story?
Hi everybody, this is Becky ZoBell. I would really like to be a part of this group but after reading the first chapter of rethinking thin I have to say a few things.
ReplyDelete1. I have never been on a diet or have thought myself to be overweight. Truth be told, I was always the skinny girl through high school and even college. I never thought about the scale, food has never been my enemy (except when I get food poisining or am pregnant,) and I don't sit down and eat a carton of ice cream if I'm sad. I have gained about 10 pounds with each baby. Dallin , my 3rd, put me in a category I had never seen before. I weighed more than my husband by the time I had him. I am now in the thought process to lose about 15 pounds. I don't intend to try and get back to my pre marriage or even pre 1st child weight. I don't think my body would like that. I tried The South Beach diet for 2 days and was starving! I think diets are dumb! I agree with the whole idea of listening to your body and giving it what it wants. Hot dogs for breakfast? I'm not so sure on that one yet.:)
I want to be able to listen to my body and give it the healthy food that it needs with the occasional cheeseburger on the side. I love food to much to give anything up. Especially desserts. I agree with the LEARN idea. I also find that watching the biggest loser is a good motivator. These people are changing their life styles, and eating healthier along the way.
Exercise? You bet! I found myself 2 summers ago training to run the Top of Utah half marathon. It was great! I was feeling good about myself and my body. I was eating better foods that didn't feel like they weighed me down and eating my dinners on salad plates. I didn't cut back on anything except the portion size. In the process of training I lost 10 pounds. But the thing I remember was feeling good about me. I'd like to get back there again. Wheww! There's the saga of The life of Beck. Thanks Jill.
Becky:
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments and sharing your thoughts. I think there are going to be a few new ideas for you as we go along. Part of intuitive eating is learning to feel good about yourself before you lose the 10 pounds, but it's also about health and fitness too. It's about learning to use internal cues to guide your eating instead of external ones like smaller plates or counting calories.
I would venture to say, even though I'm not a faithful viewer, that watching the biggest loser for motivation and adopoting the ideas in it would actually be counter productive to learning to be an intuitive eater and what it's all about. Just recently some of the former contestants were on the Oprah show lamenting about how the were not able to keep the weight off. When the contestants get in the real world without the show to motivate them they learn they haven't really fundementally changed from the overeaters they were before they started the show.
I'm glad your not the kind of person that buys into the idea of giving up certain types of food in the pursuit of wiet loss. This kind of thinking and eating seems to always backfire in the end.
Thanks Jill. I do want to feel good about myself before the pounds come off. I do not want to give up any foods (I say this as I just polished off 2 chocolate chip cookies- yeah they were good). I've also learned that hey, you are probably never going to fit into those pants again, so stop trying! Go buy pants and clothes that fit. That is a huge hang up for me. But wearing clothes that fit, regardless of the size, makes me feel good inside. Thanks for letting me ramble and for your help and comments.
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to answer a few of the questions Jill posed to us.
ReplyDeleteFirst - How have diets you've been on in the past (if any) contributed to issues you may have with food and your body? This is so strange, but I remember turning 16 & wanting to be honest when I put my weight on my drivers license. I wanted it to read 120 & I weighed 125. I had no clue about dieting, and I had never worried about it. So, I decided to go one week without putting butter on my toast, and each time I reached for potato chips (my favorite!) I would only take 5. No joke, I lost 5 pounds in 5 days. So, after having a couple of children and seeing how my body had changed, I thought back to that experience and just knew that if I cut certain things out of my life, I would lose weight. It didn't happen, and just like that, I was sucked into the vicious cycle. Maybe I'm cutting out the wrong things, or not enough things, etc. Blah, blah, blah.
I am inventing my style of eater - I'm an Unconscious refuse-not, waste-not, eater. I can be having a great time at a party, visiting & joking around, but if there's food, I'll be picking at it the entire evening. I don't want to be a wasteful person - if my kids don't finish their chicken nuggets, I'm right there, hoovering it up while they're on the playland. Just today, Jenny didn't eat her crust from her grilled cheese - yep. I ate it.
Do you agree or disagree with the statement, "diets don't work?" Why or why not? I disagree! Diets do work. We've all lost at least some weight dieting one way or another. My question is...what do you do 2 weeks later when you're out licking your sidewalk for nourishment? In the long run - I truly believe that diets will never, ever work. There is nothing out there that can be done for the remainder of your life without wreaking some serious havoc on your emotions & attitudes towards food.
The authors suggest that we all have an intuitive eater inside of us that has just been buried over time. Do you believe that you possess this ability somewhere in you? Why or why not? Absolutely. I know the ability is in me, because it has slowly been coming out of the wood works these past few months. I hope that one day I will be a pro at eating intuitively, because I LOVE food. No really. I love the way it looks, the way it smells, the way it sounds when you're cooking it, and especially the way it tastes. Why not embrace all of those wonderful things about food?
Emily:
ReplyDeleteYou're such and honest Abe. Most of us would just lie about our weight on our drivers license! I'm worried about when I get mine renewed. I have no idea what I weigh so I'm just going to have to guess.
I also like you image of licking the side walk for nurishment. It's extreme but bring up the right feeling for sure.
I went through and answered all the questions for myself. It was a good excercise for me. I helped me think and remind myself of why I like intuitive eating so much. I'm going to post my answers here because I don't want to retype them on the blog.
ReplyDeleteThanks for all your comments. I know there were a lot of questions this time. Hopefully there won't be as many next week. I hope you're enjoying your reading.
First, to answer some of the questions:
ReplyDeleteI started having issues with body image, food and dieting around the time of puberty. As the only member of my immediate family who struggled with weight, I always felt something was wrong with me. I still often attribute my weight issues to the summer I started puberty in which rather than working on my family's farm doing physical labor, I stayed home and watched my little brother - and spent all my time watching soap operas and eating. It has been a battle ever since. Who knows if that really started all my problems?
I am definitely a refuse-not unconscious eater, with a little bit of waste-not, and the occasional emotional eater. But if food is there, especially something sweet, whether I'm hungry or not, I'll eat it. I think I gain 5 pounds every time I'm at my parents because it seems there is always food around.
I have real jealousy and intimidation issues with fitness fanatics and careful eaters, and really with anyone "thin" and I do think I think of them as more "virtuous". I'm embarrassed to post pictures of myself on my blog, or send out family picture Christmas cards because I'm not one of those "cute thin moms" that our society pressures us to be.
I'm pretty sure my mom is an intuitive eater, she has never really been one to diet, eats what she wants, but always seems to do so in moderation and she generally chooses healthy food. She has always been at a healthy weight, I wouldn't say skinny but not heavy either, has never really done formal exercise, just stays active working on the farm and chasing kids and now grandkids. Only with age has she starting having issues with weight gain and has had to start walking for exercise.
And now to add my comments to some of those already made. I'm a fan of The Biggest Loser, but as I started to read I'm realizing that the quick weight loss and dieting portion of the show may not be wise. Though I still find it an inspiration to get off the couch and exercise more (and anything that does that for me is huge). I've said to others as well as myself that I don't want to give up eating certain foods, and that I just need to reduce the amount that I eat - but more importantly I need to increase my activity. I always think if I could just get in the habit of exercising regularly that I would be able to lose weight, but I never seem able to stick with anything for long, and I've yet to reach that point many refer to when it becomes a necessity to exercise, that you feel awful without it.
So far I am very intrigued and can't wait to read more. I'm hopeful but a little skeptic at the same time that I can change myself.
I just realized my post name doesn't distiguish me from Jill who started this blog. The previous post was mine - Jill H.
ReplyDeleteFirst I've really enjoyed reading everybody's responses and feel myself resonating with a lot of them.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to post a few thoughts as well (it's not as thoughtful as I hoped because I haven't been getting much sleep due to a teething one year old and going to school but anyway . . .)
I should probably say that I have had a terrible history with body image and have spent way too many hours of my life walking around thinking how fat my thighs look in jeans compared to other people around me or obsessing about how my body is not the societal ideal. I use to drape myself in large clothes so that I wouldn't have to think about my body and others wouldn't notice it either. And have been guilty of "if I only lost 10 pounds then my life would be better" school of thought.
About four or five years ago, my boyfriend at the time (now husband! he's a great one to be married to) gave me Intuitive Eating to read. He was taking a class at BYU from a professor (Steve Hawks) who has done a lot of research about this. Anyway, I ended up working at an eating disorder clinic (Center for Change) for awhile. It was VERY instructive and theraputic for me to support women of all ages in overcoming negative body image and developing a healthy relationship with food.
Still I think there are very few women who don't struggle with food and their bodies. I would love to be able to model and teach my daughter to love her body and to enjoy food so that she doesn't have the kinds of issues I've had.
I have definitely been an emotional eater and an unconscious one as well. I gained so much weight on my mission because all of the tragic social oppression around me made me turn to food completely. But even before my mission I feel like I can binge eat when I'm stressed out or emotional. Since reading Intuitive Eating five or six years ago though, I have slowly been more aware of my eating and been able to recognize what's happening before I binge on things for the most part. I still have my bad days.
I absolutely struggle with feeling that exercising thin people are more virtuous. That is reinforced in so many ways both publically (media etc) and privately (shout out to my dad who exercises up to 2 hours a day) in my life. I have at points struggled with a really negative relationship with exercise because of it (lots of guilt and resentment that exercise doesn't always make my body the perfect thin one which frankly it never has been and never will). Thankfully I think I've come to a better place and enjoy exercise but also don't hate myself if I'm not.
One of my biggest problems with diets is how much they consume people - women especially. There have been times in my life when I felt like I didn't have very many friends who didn't spend a lot of time talking about dieting or moralizing about "good" and "bad" foods. After reading Intuitive Eating, I really began to feel like there are so many other more important things I can be putting that energy towards instead of obsessing about my how I look compared to other people. Plus my theological beliefs as a Mormon mean that I should be incredibly grateful for my experience with my body.
This year has been a tough one for me even though I completely believe in the Intuitive Eating model for food and body. After having a baby my body is changed and I don't want to think of it as bad and gross that I look different and parts of my body spread out more than they use to. But I still do. It's hard when my old clothes don't fit and my belly spills over my pants. My goal would be to see my body and this transformation after birth as evidence, not of being gross and fat, but of carrying and birthing another human life.
Ah Julie, I'm so glad you posted. You were the person who introduced me to intuitive eating. I'm so grateful. Thanks for being part of this group and taking the time to share some thoughts. You have some valuable insights to share. I know how busy you are with Joyce and school. I'm with you on the baby thing. A changed body is a small price to pay for these little people we love. Love ya Julie.
ReplyDeleteP.S. I've always thought you were fabulously gorgeous!